The other day in class, I made a comment that by providing Patroclus with his armor and allowing the Myrmidons to fight, Achilles was being selfish. I sensed that many people either did not agree with this statement or were confused by it, so I would like to further explain myself. Throughout the Iliad, numerous attempts are made by several people to try and talk Achilles into returning to battle. All of these attempts fail, and thus show Achilles' inability to swallow his pride. This newest attempt by Patroclus is different however; Achilles comes to a compromise. Achilles agrees to let Patroclus use his armor and let the Myrmidons fight only because the Trojans are on the verge of destroying the Acheans' ships and thus keeping Achilles from traveling home. If keeping the ships safe is so important to Achilles, why did he not just choose to fight himself? The answer is self-interest, which is a key character-trait throughout the Iliad. Almost all the large characters in the time of the Iliad undeniably display selfish attitudes, mostly in an attempt to gain personal glory.
For community service day I went to USO and was able to talk with many American troops who were on their way to fight overseas. I was curious as to whether soldiers’ self-interest existed in today’s war as it did in the time of the Iliad. Looking around the terminal the answer became increasingly clear. The somber and morose attitude of the soldiers showed none of them cared about personal glory, only survival. I began talking to a soldier who was only two years older than me. He told me that joining the army was a terrible decision and that he wish he would have stayed in school. He then went on to say that there was no comradery in his unit at all and everyone only looked out for themselves. In this case it’s easy to understand why soldiers would be self-interested on the battlefield; on the verge of death a person would do anything to survive. Today’s soldiers are just as selfish as Achilles and other warriors of the past, just for a different and more understandable reason.
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As a fellow presenter with you while you made your claim that Achilles' actions are selfish, I agree with you. Achilles wants no part of this war that he has signed up to fight in, he simply wants to go home. With the Trojans advancing, his chance to return home may not be guaranteed. If the Trojans had succeeded in burning the Achaean ships, Achilles would have been stuck in Troy. This is the only reason Achilles agrees to let Patroclus to return to battle. He does not care that the rest of the army that he is a part of is on the verge of defeat, he only thinks of himself. And to further prove his selfishness, he doesn't even defend the ships himself, he sends his best friend in his place. Achilles' actions are most selfish in nature.
I really think Achilles had some selfish notions, however, his approval of Patroclus wearing his armor is not so black and white. Achilles is worried about his survival (he even says he would not be willing to die for this war), but putting his closest friend in danger is most likely not that selfish. However, it is selfish in terms that he was too stubborn to answer to Agamemnon, consistently being too prideful. I think that's the way Achilles is being selfish, because he did not want anything to happen to Patroclus, who many belive to have been his lover.
As far as the idea that soldiers today just want to be safe, I must say I agree. I think that they feel that they are not being treated as well as they deserve to be. Like you said, these soldiers are not selfish, just realistic and hopeful that their lives will continue after the war.
Although presenting with you, this blog helped clear up your assertion in class. Achilles obviously has to be somewhat interested in saving his own life because he knows he is fated to die in battle. But I agree with Michael that the bestowing of his armor to Patroclus is not so easy to interpret. He is, like I said before, obviously looking out for his own safety, but I have a hard time believing that this is the only reason he is sending Patroclus. I also agree with what you said about the soldiers now. They are obviously looking to stay alive while overseas and are definitely more interested in themselves than past wars. But with how impersonal modern combat has become, soldiers have a more realistic view of their role.
While I agree with most of your claims, I would not really say that Achilles made a compromise so much as he gave into Patroclus' repeatedly asking to wear the armor. While I understand that part of Achilles' decision was because of the ships, I do feel that another part was because it was Patroclus asking to wear the armor.
As far as the personal glory observation you made, I don't really see that as a reason why people are joining the military anymore nowadays. In today's society you just don't really see that as the reason for fighting for ones country anymore.
i think i said this somewhere else on somebody's blog, but this post made me remember it... So do Achilles' motives really affect his hero-ship or lack thereof? Either way he saves the Acheans from certain destruction. is this rescue enough to overcome any inconsistencies in his motives?
i second Michael's comment about soldier's not being treated as well as they should
p.s. in response to your comment on my blog, perhaps i should have said that maturity AND training would be good things... That was sort of assumed--with maturity comes the capability to learn and therefore train to gain experience.
You make a tremendous point Uncle Sam. Achilles is selfish and his selfishness leads to the death of his lover, friend, nephew whatever you want to call Patroclus. What is great, however, is the way Achilles reacts to his selfishness, and the irony his selfishness holds in that it allows for his dramatic maturation to take place
I believe that Achilles is the most selfish person in the Iliad. His selfishness brought about the death of Patroclus. But if you think about it you could argue that because of his selfishness, it brought about his sudden change and it finally brought about the completion of the character Achilles.
I think it can be argued that Achilles is somewhat scared to go into battle and for this reason abstains from the war for such a long period of time. However, we have to keep in mind that Achilles is a greatest warrior in the battle. His presence in the war inspires the men and his actions of killing Hector are portrayed as powerful and dominant. His actions are not "heroic" by any means, but his presence is felt and the audience sees the rage within Achilles.
Achilles believes that Patroclus is a great warrior and would never knowingly send him to die. Achilles this so called egomaniac actually prays to the gods to protect Patroclus and give him strength. Achilles fails to realize the consequences involved with wearing his armor. He loves Patroclus and his brutal killing of Hector proves it.
I think that there are multiple ways of looking at Achilles' decision to let Patroclus fight instead of himself. To me, Achilles is a man with strict morals. He believes that Agamemnon wronged him and he is willing to sit out of battle to do because of it. When the Trojans are threatening to burn down the Achean ships, Achilles still sticks to his morals, while trying to protect his men's way home. It never explicitly says that Achilles only cares about his way home, so to me he was actually being a good leader. Achilles gave up his most prized possesion, his armor, and let someone who meant so much to him go fight in a war. Likewise, Achilles is willing to sacrifice his armor, Patroclus, and the Myrmidons in order to give the Acheans a better shot at winning the war. I do not think he was being selfish at all.
I think its a gross over generalization to say that all soldiers today are self interested and care nothing for comradary. Not all soldiers are selfish. Besides, Achilles is being a baby and making Patroclus fight for him. He isn't fighting and letting his squadmate die so he can live. Totally different..
I liked this blog it was quite interesting how that there really isn't a "team" within the US army (well at least that unit), it is a bunch of individuals that just happened to be doing the same thing.
I cannot point at finger at either Patroclus or Achilles. I think they were equally at fault
I have a question - Is the key to victory in war 100% selfless soldiers? or a bunch of mercenaries or super human like characters like achilles?
I definitely think that Achilles was being selfish when he allowed Patroclus to fight. He knows that if he fights, he'll die. He knows that if the ships burn then he can't get home. I can understand his fear of dying but that still doesn't take make him any less selfish for sending out his closest friend to fight for him.
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